MADISON — “Here tonight is a beautiful example of Christians coming together and reflecting on our commonalities,” said Bishop Donald J. Hying of Madison recently at an ecumenical event held at High Point Church in Madison.
The event, titled “Discipleship: Lessons from the Early Church”, featured talks on St. Augustine of Hippo, presented by Bishop Hying, and St. Athanasius of Alexandria, presented by High Point Church Pastor Nic Gibson. The talks were proceeded by a moderated question and answer session and discussion by the two presenters.
“There’s obviously serious and lasting theological differences between Catholicism and Protestantism,” said Bishop Hying during the discussion. “But the beauty of ecumenism is that we can come here tonight together because all of us love the Lord and all of us are serious about a life of discipleship in Christ. So for those that may be nervous about it, I would say in no way does it mean that, as a Catholic bishop, I surrender anything of what I believe about Catholicism, but part of Catholicism is that I can sit down with anybody and talk about the Lord. And that’s the power of witness and evangelization.”
The conversation eventually led to Pastor Gibson asking the bishop whether Catholics could view Protestants as having valid sacraments. The bishop offered some clarity about the validity of Baptism but stressed that many of the sacraments are dependent on ministerial priesthood and the Sacrament of Holy Orders.
Pastor Gibson added, “My response to the bishop saying we cannot have a valid [Eucharistic] sacrament is not anger. It’s thankfulness that he is being honest with us. He’s telling us the conviction of the Roman Catholic Church and we have to have confidence in our own convictions to believe that is incorrect or be willing to listen why he thinks that in a more full way.”
The two contrasted what they were doing with what they called a “false ecumenism” which involves “dancing around the issues, trying to find some middle ground that doesn’t really exist,” said Bishop Hying.
Talk on St. Augustine
During the his talk on St. Augustine, Bishop Hying reflected on the nature of conversion, Original Sin, and grace.
“As Christians, we know we must constantly be serious about conversion,” said the bishop. “Some of us have perhaps dramatic conversions in our life, but for those of us who are converted, we know there is always this need to go into an even deeper conversion. It is not a task that is finished.”
The bishop spoke about St. Augustine’s contribution to both the Catholic and Protestant theological understanding of Original Sin as well as being held as a saint in both the West and the East.
“St. Augustine developed a whole understanding of theology of Original Sin,” said the bishop. “He saw the human person as this perfect fusion of soul and body. Before the fundamental Original Sin of Adam and Eve, the human person was perfectly integrated. After Original Sin, we are wounded and broken.”
He talked about the word concupiscence “which is a big fancy theological word that means we’re messed up. How freeing it is to stand before you today and say that I’m a mess. I’m a sinner. I need help. I’m fundamentally wounded. And the good news is that you are too, because only a sinner can acknowledge the need for a savior.”
The bishop went on to clarify that “grace is absolutely necessary for salvation. Grace alone brings every good work in us, and it’s the grace won for us in Christ. So to move from the law to grace is to move from seeing our religious practices as this heavy obligation into this position of freedom where we have fallen in love with God and what we do is because we want to. When you’re in love, you don’t look at what you have to do. You look at what you can do.”
He then connected Augustine’s theology to the “efficacy of the sacraments.”
“Augustine stood up against the Donatists [by] saying that the sacraments have efficacy in and of themselves,” said the bishop, whereas the Donatists argued that the priest’s sins could make the sacraments invalid. This point was again referenced when Pastor Gibson questioned the bishop on whether the sacraments in Protestantism are valid.
Reflection on St. Athanasius
Pastor Gibson’s talk focused on an earlier saint from the third century, St. Athanasius, who stood against the popular Arian heresy of his time. He described Athanasius as “a pastoral controversialist” who wasn’t willing to back down from the truth, but who also wasn’t willing to resort to violence.
“[St. Athanasius] stood against lies, people accusing him of murdering his friends, engaging in witchcraft. You name it, they threw it against him to see if it would stick,” said Pastor Gibson. “I have found this inspiring for myself trying to be a loving controversialist, being that person who stands for the truth and will not move and yet will not be a violent man.”
During the question and answer session and discussion, Pastor Gibson said, “We are quickly coming to a time where the closest parallel to other Christians may be earlier Christians. I think when [the bishop and I] first talked, we recognized that there were some areas in the realm of social action that there may be significant overlap in our thinking. We discussed the importance of letting our voices be unified where there is unity.”
He added, “I have a lot more in common with a Roman Catholic friend and brother who actually believes those truths of the [Apostles’] creed than a Protestant clergy that does not. America has changed and its denominational things have all moved around. I have a lot more in common with Bishop Hying than most Protestant clergy in Madison.”
Bishop Hying said, “In a culture that is moving further and further away from Christ, it would be a lost opportunity for me if fellow Christians didn’t unite on the things that we can, to really have that Christian voice in the secular culture. We can’t let the divisions between us keep us from being united in what we can be united about, especially when it comes to issues of life, of sexuality, of justice and peace, and the whole Christian worldview.”